Thoughts. » break throws http://www.ultimatethoughts.com Ultimate Ramblings Tue, 07 Feb 2012 04:36:41 +0000 en hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0 Forehand Throws and Foot Turns: Follow-Up on the IO Foot http://www.ultimatethoughts.com/2009/12/forehand-throws-and-foot-turns-follow-up-on-the-io-foot.html http://www.ultimatethoughts.com/2009/12/forehand-throws-and-foot-turns-follow-up-on-the-io-foot.html#comments Tue, 08 Dec 2009 13:00:00 +0000 Mackey http://www.ultimatethoughts.com/2009/12/forehand-throws-and-foot-turns-follow-up-on-the-io-foot.html I tried to dig up a couple pictures of what I was talking about last week with the “IO Foot”; Keeghan Uhl’s gallery of Nationals provided a few useful pictures.

Without further ado:

This picture provides one angle on the IO foot. The throw isn’t explicitly IO–which is to say, this could just be a flat throw to the open side–but you’ll note that the foot position forces the knee to follow and wind up in a position which allows a fairly clean follow-through of the arm in front of the leg.

This picture shows essentially the same position as the prior one, but from a slightly different angle. You’ll note the release point, which is both low and well in front of the knee–again, this is not explicitly an IO throw (thought note the slight tilt), but I hope it’s fairly apparent that a throw from a similar position could penetrate a mark for a low-release break.


This picture is a great example of how the IO foot can be applied in game (though the foot block is a perpetual menace for low releases). Check the distance the thrower is able to penetrate from where his pivot foot (and presumably weight) was.  Note the direction the foot points, relative to the throwing direction–pretty close to perpendicular*.  Any mark within a few feet is a candidate for the step-through, IO forehand break.
*I know I referenced “past perpendicular” in the prior post, and that may have been a bit hyperbolic–I get there sometimes, but it’s more instructive as a cue than a hard-and-fast rule.

I’d love to hear thoughts from people who get by with other stepping/throwing techniques.  I know there’s a decent-sized camp that points the foot upfield and releases outside of the knee rather than inside, and I’m curious as to how that plays for making IO breaks in particular.

Related posts:

  1. Forehand Throws and Foot Turns
  2. Balance Revisited: Throwing With Your Weight Set
  3. Throwing Thought: Balance for Short and Long Throws

]]> http://www.ultimatethoughts.com/2009/12/forehand-throws-and-foot-turns-follow-up-on-the-io-foot.html/feed 5 Forehand Throws and Foot Turns http://www.ultimatethoughts.com/2009/12/forehand-throws-and-foot-turns.html http://www.ultimatethoughts.com/2009/12/forehand-throws-and-foot-turns.html#comments Tue, 01 Dec 2009 13:00:00 +0000 Mackey http://www.ultimatethoughts.com/2009/12/forehand-throws-and-foot-turns.html I was asked last week about foot placement on forehand hucks. I’ve been meaning to write about foot placement for a while now, and for something so seemingly simple there’s actually a decent amount of nuance to it, so this likely won’t be the only post on the topic.

Some general points on stepping and throwing a forehand:

  • Definitely turn the hips when you step to throw. When I step forward for a break, my toe always points “out,” (my heel us turned to point in to my midline; the foot as a whole comes to, if not past, perpendicular). The hip turn allows you to step farther (it’s easier to step “forward” than it is to step out to the side); the foot turn further facilitates the hip turn, and gives a better angle for the arm on an IO/low release throw.
  • Incidentally, this foot turn is something me and a couple buddies refer to as “the IO foot.” Try it on your backhands too (turning the same way, so you heel is placed farther away and your toe points more upfield)!
  • My arm comes in front of my knee in all situations in which I’m throwing an IO break (particularly the low release), and in many low-release situations as well. Very rarely do I get low by squatting or hunching; taking a full step tends to win out over a stationary squat for getting throws past the mark, in my experience.

For hucking, I’m still working out some different techniques.

  • You can huck from a stepping-forward position (using the momentum of your step in the throw). I’ve found this to be effective to a point, but ultimately lacking in power (could be my body mechanics or a lack of strength, but throwing this way I struggle to put it past 40 yards in moderate conditions (ie not still, but not a heavy upwind/downwind).
  • Lately however I’ve been focusing more on using my shoulder to launch the disc with good success, from standing or stepping positions–and I’ve been finding stepping sideways (or at least, with less forward) gives me more range of motion at the shoulder before release and thus more power on the huck. Grip’s the biggest concern for me there; depending on the day I can only put so much power behind it before my grip can’t keep up. Takes some work for sure, but pending more game-use to test it I think it’s a lot more functional at getting a throw off quickly and powerfully.


I’d like to get some video or other visual aid up here eventually; I’ll see about some photography (or browse some photo sites for examples) to aid this explanation. The IO foot made a huge difference in my throwing, so practice and use it well!

Related posts:

  1. Forehand Throws and Foot Turns: Follow-Up on the IO Foot
  2. Throwing Thought: Forehand Hucks (Response to Issue #10: "Throwing for Distance")
  3. Throwing Thought: Balance for Short and Long Throws

]]> http://www.ultimatethoughts.com/2009/12/forehand-throws-and-foot-turns.html/feed 9 Forehand Hucks Revisited: Shoulder Tilt http://www.ultimatethoughts.com/2009/08/forehand-hucks-revisited-shoulder-tilt.html http://www.ultimatethoughts.com/2009/08/forehand-hucks-revisited-shoulder-tilt.html#comments Tue, 25 Aug 2009 12:00:00 +0000 Mackey http://www.ultimatethoughts.com/2009/08/forehand-hucks-revisited-shoulder-tilt.html

I recently received a question from a commenter on my old “Forehand Hucks” post asking about how to compensate for the natural OI that comes with the grip I epouse for flicks.

The easiest (and best) way to control for this is with your shoulder tilt. It’s easy to think that some wrist tilt can compensate, but the plane of the throw, flat or otherwise, is decided by your shoulders. A throw that naturally comes out OI becomes flat becomes IO if you adjust the plane along which it’s thrown.

IO throws mean lowering your throwing shoulder(right shoulder for a right-handed thrower); OI means raising it.

There is a bit more nuance to it than that (I’m thinking of follow-through, as IO throws tend to come closer to the body than OI flavors), but shoulder tilt is an easy and simple cue to help you debug your throws (when you’re doubtless running through your checklist while warming up).

*Photo from Scobel Wiggins’ ECC photos.

Related posts:

  1. Do You Throw With Your Hip or Your Shoulder?
  2. Forehand Throws and Foot Turns
  3. Throwing Thought: Forehand Hucks (Response to Issue #10: "Throwing for Distance")

]]> http://www.ultimatethoughts.com/2009/08/forehand-hucks-revisited-shoulder-tilt.html/feed 2 Use Pivot Planes For Better Breaking http://www.ultimatethoughts.com/2009/07/use-pivot-planes-for-better-breaking.html http://www.ultimatethoughts.com/2009/07/use-pivot-planes-for-better-breaking.html#comments Tue, 28 Jul 2009 12:00:00 +0000 Mackey http://www.ultimatethoughts.com/2009/07/use-pivot-planes-for-better-breaking.html Do you think about your step when you’re throwing?

Not just the mechanics of it (more on that in a later post), but WHERE you step to.

Cara Crouch’s post for the Huddle’s Team USA issue alludes to “throw[ing] from a plane that is not parallel to [the mark's]” for better throwing, and I thought it was important enough to flesh out a bit more.

There are two extremes to your pivot planes; In practice, your pivot* will of course wind up somewhere between the two. The planes are relative to your intended throwing direction, e.g. the dump, upfield:

  • Horizontal–this is the default you see from novice to early-intermediate throwers. Side-to-side motion; staying in this plane allows success in some situations, but marks tend to work primarily in this plane too, so it turns beating the mark into a pivot speed/reach contest. Some can win this contest consistently.
  • Vertical–this is where the magic happens when a thrower has the disc in her hands. As I said above, marks are primarily horizontally concerned; if you catch a mark too close to you in the vertical plane, it generally becomes a simple feat to step forward, through the mark (or “past” it if you prefer), and make break throws to all sorts of places on the field. Conversely, if a mark is too far off, you gain a wider range of options working in the horizontal plane (I’ve already discussed this a bit talking about adjustments on the mark).


The best break throwers I’ve seen, if perhaps not reliant upon using the vertical plane to create breaks, are at least familiar and comfortable with it. I think this evolved at first as a response to the hack-tastic mark; step through the mark, draw a foul, get a free chance to try the break! But even without the foul factor**, it’s well worth mastering in its own right, a pivotal rung on the ladder climbing from novice to stud.

*Yes, yes, great throwers don’t pivot–when I say “pivot plane” I really mean “step to throw.” Only one of those alliterates nicely for a title.

**Correct me if I’m wrong, but the “nightclub” mark (goal: get in the thrower’s pants) seems to be on the wane.

Related posts:

  1. Absolute and Practical Pivot Ranges
  2. Throwing Thought: Throw Convincing, Effective Fakes
  3. More on Emotional Defense

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