Thoughts. » handling http://www.ultimatethoughts.com Ultimate Ramblings Tue, 07 Feb 2012 04:36:41 +0000 en hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0 Forehand Throws and Foot Turns: Follow-Up on the IO Foot http://www.ultimatethoughts.com/2009/12/forehand-throws-and-foot-turns-follow-up-on-the-io-foot.html http://www.ultimatethoughts.com/2009/12/forehand-throws-and-foot-turns-follow-up-on-the-io-foot.html#comments Tue, 08 Dec 2009 13:00:00 +0000 Mackey http://www.ultimatethoughts.com/2009/12/forehand-throws-and-foot-turns-follow-up-on-the-io-foot.html I tried to dig up a couple pictures of what I was talking about last week with the “IO Foot”; Keeghan Uhl’s gallery of Nationals provided a few useful pictures.

Without further ado:

This picture provides one angle on the IO foot. The throw isn’t explicitly IO–which is to say, this could just be a flat throw to the open side–but you’ll note that the foot position forces the knee to follow and wind up in a position which allows a fairly clean follow-through of the arm in front of the leg.

This picture shows essentially the same position as the prior one, but from a slightly different angle. You’ll note the release point, which is both low and well in front of the knee–again, this is not explicitly an IO throw (thought note the slight tilt), but I hope it’s fairly apparent that a throw from a similar position could penetrate a mark for a low-release break.


This picture is a great example of how the IO foot can be applied in game (though the foot block is a perpetual menace for low releases). Check the distance the thrower is able to penetrate from where his pivot foot (and presumably weight) was.  Note the direction the foot points, relative to the throwing direction–pretty close to perpendicular*.  Any mark within a few feet is a candidate for the step-through, IO forehand break.
*I know I referenced “past perpendicular” in the prior post, and that may have been a bit hyperbolic–I get there sometimes, but it’s more instructive as a cue than a hard-and-fast rule.

I’d love to hear thoughts from people who get by with other stepping/throwing techniques.  I know there’s a decent-sized camp that points the foot upfield and releases outside of the knee rather than inside, and I’m curious as to how that plays for making IO breaks in particular.

Related posts:

  1. Forehand Throws and Foot Turns
  2. Balance Revisited: Throwing With Your Weight Set
  3. Throwing Thought: Balance for Short and Long Throws

]]> http://www.ultimatethoughts.com/2009/12/forehand-throws-and-foot-turns-follow-up-on-the-io-foot.html/feed 5 Forehand Throws and Foot Turns http://www.ultimatethoughts.com/2009/12/forehand-throws-and-foot-turns.html http://www.ultimatethoughts.com/2009/12/forehand-throws-and-foot-turns.html#comments Tue, 01 Dec 2009 13:00:00 +0000 Mackey http://www.ultimatethoughts.com/2009/12/forehand-throws-and-foot-turns.html I was asked last week about foot placement on forehand hucks. I’ve been meaning to write about foot placement for a while now, and for something so seemingly simple there’s actually a decent amount of nuance to it, so this likely won’t be the only post on the topic.

Some general points on stepping and throwing a forehand:

  • Definitely turn the hips when you step to throw. When I step forward for a break, my toe always points “out,” (my heel us turned to point in to my midline; the foot as a whole comes to, if not past, perpendicular). The hip turn allows you to step farther (it’s easier to step “forward” than it is to step out to the side); the foot turn further facilitates the hip turn, and gives a better angle for the arm on an IO/low release throw.
  • Incidentally, this foot turn is something me and a couple buddies refer to as “the IO foot.” Try it on your backhands too (turning the same way, so you heel is placed farther away and your toe points more upfield)!
  • My arm comes in front of my knee in all situations in which I’m throwing an IO break (particularly the low release), and in many low-release situations as well. Very rarely do I get low by squatting or hunching; taking a full step tends to win out over a stationary squat for getting throws past the mark, in my experience.

For hucking, I’m still working out some different techniques.

  • You can huck from a stepping-forward position (using the momentum of your step in the throw). I’ve found this to be effective to a point, but ultimately lacking in power (could be my body mechanics or a lack of strength, but throwing this way I struggle to put it past 40 yards in moderate conditions (ie not still, but not a heavy upwind/downwind).
  • Lately however I’ve been focusing more on using my shoulder to launch the disc with good success, from standing or stepping positions–and I’ve been finding stepping sideways (or at least, with less forward) gives me more range of motion at the shoulder before release and thus more power on the huck. Grip’s the biggest concern for me there; depending on the day I can only put so much power behind it before my grip can’t keep up. Takes some work for sure, but pending more game-use to test it I think it’s a lot more functional at getting a throw off quickly and powerfully.


I’d like to get some video or other visual aid up here eventually; I’ll see about some photography (or browse some photo sites for examples) to aid this explanation. The IO foot made a huge difference in my throwing, so practice and use it well!

Related posts:

  1. Forehand Throws and Foot Turns: Follow-Up on the IO Foot
  2. Throwing Thought: Forehand Hucks (Response to Issue #10: "Throwing for Distance")
  3. Throwing Thought: Balance for Short and Long Throws

]]> http://www.ultimatethoughts.com/2009/12/forehand-throws-and-foot-turns.html/feed 9 Forehand Hucks Revisited: Shoulder Tilt http://www.ultimatethoughts.com/2009/08/forehand-hucks-revisited-shoulder-tilt.html http://www.ultimatethoughts.com/2009/08/forehand-hucks-revisited-shoulder-tilt.html#comments Tue, 25 Aug 2009 12:00:00 +0000 Mackey http://www.ultimatethoughts.com/2009/08/forehand-hucks-revisited-shoulder-tilt.html

I recently received a question from a commenter on my old “Forehand Hucks” post asking about how to compensate for the natural OI that comes with the grip I epouse for flicks.

The easiest (and best) way to control for this is with your shoulder tilt. It’s easy to think that some wrist tilt can compensate, but the plane of the throw, flat or otherwise, is decided by your shoulders. A throw that naturally comes out OI becomes flat becomes IO if you adjust the plane along which it’s thrown.

IO throws mean lowering your throwing shoulder(right shoulder for a right-handed thrower); OI means raising it.

There is a bit more nuance to it than that (I’m thinking of follow-through, as IO throws tend to come closer to the body than OI flavors), but shoulder tilt is an easy and simple cue to help you debug your throws (when you’re doubtless running through your checklist while warming up).

*Photo from Scobel Wiggins’ ECC photos.

Related posts:

  1. Do You Throw With Your Hip or Your Shoulder?
  2. Forehand Throws and Foot Turns
  3. Throwing Thought: Forehand Hucks (Response to Issue #10: "Throwing for Distance")

]]> http://www.ultimatethoughts.com/2009/08/forehand-hucks-revisited-shoulder-tilt.html/feed 2 Team USA’s Huddle Entries http://www.ultimatethoughts.com/2009/07/team-usas-huddle-entries.html http://www.ultimatethoughts.com/2009/07/team-usas-huddle-entries.html#comments Wed, 15 Jul 2009 04:09:00 +0000 Mackey http://www.ultimatethoughts.com/2009/07/team-usas-huddle-entries.html Solid gold! And I’m not just talking about Team USA’s prospects at the World Games.

  • If you read only one thing about cutting, read Bart Watson’s piece. Concise but full of useful information; re-reading is certain to yield more information than the first glance. His thoughts on cutting not only echo mine, but exceed them. I especially like his notion of “control[ling] your defender;” it’s a nice, succinct way to think about your goals as a cutter, and synergizes nicely with my favorite “create space, attack space.”

  • Gwen’s assertion that an aspiring deep threat should first focus on top speed is one I disagree with. Top speed is certainly useful, but acceleration comes into play far more often. (Ultimately this might harken back to Bart’s article as far as what kind of cutter you are/want to be–the sort who gets open in 1-2 step moves or one who powers through cutting lanes?) The attributes are tied, such that working one will tend to help the other, but I think that flow still favors training for acceleration.

  • Additionally, there’s a lot of other good stuff on handling generally. The emphasis on vision is pertinent, and the lack of good coachable points for that is understandable, as it tends to come from experience; I do like Cara Crouch’s point that the best handlers don’t follow cuts with their eyes, but use their peripheral vision well–this is something I’ve seen and tried in limited roles, but never thought to incorporate as a full-time component. I also like her point that a good handler senses the plane of the mark and avoids conforming to it by stepping toward or away from the mark.
  • I really like the stuff on defensive handlers from Seth Wiggins and Adam Simon from a strategy standpoint, in terms of what to look for from the position. Additionally, I LOVE the notion of D-line offenses as “quarterbacked” by a couple strong handlers vs. the more diverse attacks of O-lines.


What are you waiting for? Go read.

Related posts:

  1. Why Cutters Should Read the Mark, Too
  2. Cutting Thought: Know When to Cut, and When to Run
  3. Cutting Thought: On Being the Primary Cut, and Not Cutting

]]> http://www.ultimatethoughts.com/2009/07/team-usas-huddle-entries.html/feed 0 Zone O, Huddle-Style http://www.ultimatethoughts.com/2009/05/zone-o-huddle-style.html http://www.ultimatethoughts.com/2009/05/zone-o-huddle-style.html#comments Thu, 14 May 2009 12:00:00 +0000 Mackey http://www.ultimatethoughts.com/2009/05/zone-o-huddle-style.html The Huddle has an issue on Zone O.

My favorites (Ryan Morgan’s assertion that wings are not just a throwaway position for rookies is worth repeating, too); again, they put things a lot more succinctly than I.

I don’t see a ton of revolutionary (compared with my experience) information there, apart from the number of endorsements of the two-handler set; this says to me that zone O really comes down to a good, solid fundamental approach/understanding.

On the skill spectrum, a quick catch-throw turnaround and composure with the disc in your hand are great for any zone handler (and by extension, all players) to have–the former can be worked on pretty much anytime, while the latter would come with more throwing experience/confidence, both under pressure (ratchet it up in practice/drills) and in conditions (find it, and do it).

Knowledge goes hand in hand with skill. Recognizing what kind of zone you’re facing and where the weak points are, along with knowing what your own team’s assets are, likewise will do a lot to prepare for success. Insert Sun Tzu quote about knowing your enemy and yourself.

Related posts:

  1. Zone Offense: The Basics
  2. Zone: Drills
  3. Zone: Offensive Skills

]]> http://www.ultimatethoughts.com/2009/05/zone-o-huddle-style.html/feed 2 Absolute and Practical Pivot Ranges http://www.ultimatethoughts.com/2009/04/absolute-and-practical-pivot-ranges.html http://www.ultimatethoughts.com/2009/04/absolute-and-practical-pivot-ranges.html#comments Mon, 20 Apr 2009 16:30:00 +0000 Mackey http://www.ultimatethoughts.com/2009/04/absolute-and-practical-pivot-ranges.html This is a pretty simple concept, but applied properly can make a big difference in your efficiency and effectiveness on an ultimate field. In ultimate, as with many things, knowing your limits allows you to excel while remaining within yourself.

Your absolute pivot range is how far you can get out to throw. Period. How far does your lunge take you? How much farther does your reach and body torque get you on top of that? Can you throw from that far out? Can you throw well from that far out? You have to be able to throw from this distance (or, phrased differently, know what you can throw at this distance), because the only reason you should extend yourself this far is to throw.

Your practical pivot range is how far you can get out while still being able to quickly move back (which is to say, how far you can get WITHOUT overextending, or your effective faking range). This is a range you’ll wind up doing a lot of your motion on an ultimate field in–realistically, a lot of situations won’t require you to get out to your absolute range to throw successfully. Think open-side passes, or even a quick swing (fake) when you catch the dump ahead of your defender.

Generally speaking, it’s good to keep the fact that you can extend further hidden until you have an opportunity to exploit it (for instance, if you have a killer full-extension inside-out pass, there’s no need to show it until you can make that killer IO for a goal or to start some flow, etc.). Even once you’ve shown it, you shouldn’t need to fake all the way out to that range to get a mark to bite, assuming you have convincing, effective fakes.

Pivot/extension range is worth paying attention to in any circumstance–just tossing around, drills, even in scrimmage. Developing a sense of not only what you can do, but what you need to do within that range to suit your goals (get a throw off, or make a mark bite), can and will make you a better player.

Related posts:

  1. Use Pivot Planes For Better Breaking
  2. Throwing Thought: Throw Convincing, Effective Fakes
  3. Throwing Thought: Fake with an Upward Trajectory

]]> http://www.ultimatethoughts.com/2009/04/absolute-and-practical-pivot-ranges.html/feed 0 Handler Defense http://www.ultimatethoughts.com/2009/02/handler-defense.html http://www.ultimatethoughts.com/2009/02/handler-defense.html#comments Fri, 20 Feb 2009 08:57:00 +0000 Mackey http://www.ultimatethoughts.com/2009/02/handler-defense.html Learn it, do it, own it.

Want to be an elite ultimate player? Learn how to play good handler defense.

Related posts:

  1. Handler? Know Thyself.
  2. I <3 Gwen Ambler. Or, What Kind of Handler/Cutter are You?
  3. College Defense: Minimize Threat, or Maximize D Opportunities?

]]> http://www.ultimatethoughts.com/2009/02/handler-defense.html/feed 0 Handler? Know Thyself. http://www.ultimatethoughts.com/2009/02/handler-know-thyself.html http://www.ultimatethoughts.com/2009/02/handler-know-thyself.html#comments Thu, 19 Feb 2009 01:00:00 +0000 Mackey http://www.ultimatethoughts.com/2009/02/handler-know-thyself.html If I asked you the question,

“What do you look for in a good handler?”

Your list would probably look something like this:

  • good throws

  • good hands (catching)

  • quick

  • good hucks

  • breaks

  • good decisions (doesn’t turn the disc over)

I’ll offer that, while there is some requisite level of competence required in some of these areas (I’m thinking “good hands”) to be a handler, you can actually do a LOT without anything close to a complete skillset.

The most important thing for any handler (or really any player with the disc in his hands) to know is:

  • his/her own limitations

That’s all. Can’t huck it? Maybe learn the fake, but don’t sweat it. Always turfing your IO? Shelf it. Always throwing the disc away? Maybe you need better teammates to catch your visionary throws. (I’m kidding). Not quick enough to shake ‘n bake your man in two steps? Master the fine art of positioning and timing, instead of dancing in the lane.

Right there with knowing what you can’t do is knowing what you CAN. Maybe you don’t have a money flick bomb, endzone-to-endzone, but when you get the disc on an upline cut you can put it to Fred where he’ll rip it down 80% of the time. Maybe your IO sucks, but if your mark is overplaying it you can make a beautiful leading around pass.

Play to your strengths!!! Maybe your team asks you to do more than you’re capable of or comfortable with right now. Instead of simply trying (and failing) to live up to those expectations, think about how the things you WANT to do and CAN do can jive with those same goals. If you’re a handler without game-changing throws, but you can move quickly and get open, instead of trying to make that short IO break pass the coach keeps preaching you can instead focus on dishing the disc to the first open man you see as soon as you get the disc and get back to where you’re the most dangerous–moving. If you’ve got big hucks and little else (including good judgment on when to throw and when to hold), consider talking to your cutters and establishing some preferred receivers you can be comfortable throwing to (and make sure the rest know not to make that cut for you, so you’re maximizing completions).

I’m sure you’ve had experiences where you’ve run up against guys and thought, “I/we are so much better than them, can do so much more,” and then get your ass whooped. You can do a lot with a little if you know how to use it. Before you get caught up in all the stratagems, running a ho-stack or a clam because everyone runs one, try running it from the other side–what can you do well? In what setups, or simply “how,” can you best utilize this skill or ability? (Or instead of the positive definition you can look at the negative definition–given your limitations, how can you most avoid overextending yourself?)

Nobody has it all. You can be a great, well-rounded ultimate player, but there are bound to be areas where you feel less confident. Sometimes you’ll bump up against those limitations–but it doesn’t have to be by design! The best offenses are structured to play to their strengths, to feature their talents. Certainly, progressing in your skills and abilities is something to work towards, but when it counts,

Know yourself.

Related posts:

  1. I <3 Gwen Ambler. Or, What Kind of Handler/Cutter are You?
  2. Handler Defense
  3. Use Pivot Planes For Better Breaking

]]> http://www.ultimatethoughts.com/2009/02/handler-know-thyself.html/feed 9 Throwing with Touch http://www.ultimatethoughts.com/2008/12/throwing-with-touch.html http://www.ultimatethoughts.com/2008/12/throwing-with-touch.html#comments Sun, 07 Dec 2008 22:24:00 +0000 Mackey http://www.ultimatethoughts.com/2008/12/throwing-with-touch.html A little busy at work (need to prep a class on Christmas) and a little starved for inspiration of late…but check out this RSD thread on throwing with touch I posted in a couple weeks back.

My opinion is already there, but there appears to be some dissention. What’s yours? How did you learn about throwing with touch? How have you taught (or would teach) others?

I usually tell rookie throwers to think about throwing to a point on the field, rather than passing on a line that includes said point (ie, throwing to space), and that at least goes towards taking the laser out. Please chime in with your own experiences.

Related posts:

  1. Throwing Thought: Develop a Checklist
  2. Throwing Thought: Throw Off-Handed
  3. Throwing Thought: The Hammer, or, Throwing to Space

]]> http://www.ultimatethoughts.com/2008/12/throwing-with-touch.html/feed 3 Resets: Or, the Most Important Thing in Ultimate Frisbee http://www.ultimatethoughts.com/2008/10/resets-or-the-most-important-thing-in-ultimate-frisbee.html http://www.ultimatethoughts.com/2008/10/resets-or-the-most-important-thing-in-ultimate-frisbee.html#comments Tue, 28 Oct 2008 04:00:00 +0000 Mackey http://www.ultimatethoughts.com/2008/10/resets-or-the-most-important-thing-in-ultimate-frisbee.html Yeah, yeah, throwing and catching. Fundamentals aside, here, let’s talk about one step up–the dump. Absolutely essential as a building block for any offensive strategy (even if you Huck and Hope, you’re going to make some dump-like passes to set that up at some point).

It doesn’t take a team strategist to figure this out. Dumps give you a reset on the count, and, when leveraged correctly, are a WEAPON. Anybody who played against Dartmouth last year (particularly our D line) can attest to the lethality of the dump if you fail to contain it. Conversely, a team that dumps poorly is going to give up its fair share of short turns, and if you can’t dump with competence, then these same dumps will lead to a slower, more predictable (read: easier-to-defend) offense.

You know the whole analogy about how the running game sets up the passing game in football? With ultimate, the dump game similarly sets up the rest of the offense.

There are tiers of dumping. How comfortable are you?

  1. The “get a reset” dump. You look dump at high stall, and have to rush a throw. OR the dump cutting is ineffective (you have a “dancer” who doesn’t get open by much, and takes 4 seconds to do it). Either way, the throw winds up more or less shovel passed to the receiver, who gets the disc somewhere within the vicinity of 2-5 yards of the thrower (and likely coming toward the thrower or moving straight back). No advantage gained, merely a new count to look upfield and insist that somebody “CUT!”

  2. The early/competent dump. Note that those two terms tend to be synonymous. The decision to dump the disc is established early in the count more often than not (before stall 4 or 5–this will vary depending on your team’s offensive philosophy), and/or the dump cutter has an easy time getting separation from her defender. In this situation, the pass is usually made to a receiver in stride, perhaps going upline with the defender trailing (“power position,” anathema to all defenses–the thrower has a free shot deep, with momentum from the run to put it even farther), or likewise going backwards–in either case, the defender is not in a position to stop the next throw, which sets up a dump-swing style offense or a deep offense (hence the “running game” of the dump sets up the “passing game” going deep or side-to-side). This is the level of dumping which most good teams have; I’ve seen many a team that works the upline dump VERY competently, setting up a very powerful deep offense. Less common these days is the team that really works the width of the field, but your Harvards and Dartmouths will still flash this style with some effectiveness.

  3. The skillful dump. Taking the competent dump one step further, this is dumping not just for a reset, and beyond the dump as a building block for your offense. This is the point at which the dump becomes a FEATURE of the offense–the degree of thought and setup that goes into the positioning ensures that (almost) every dump puts the receiver in a position to further the offense. This is the sort of thing that Frank of RSD fame would often go on about with his ambidexterity rants and the like. Being able to run the give-and-go, for instance, not just as a every-so-often technique, but as the basis for your offense (see Minnesota and their often super-quick resets and movement–I don’t know that I’ve ever worked so hard on defense for so little gain), makes it a very potent tool, and can absolutely destroy teams unprepared to deal with it (which is, interestingly, becoming more and more the norm as teams fall into the glamour trap, opting for the big plays and the big players over the big fundamentals).

It’s all about raising the level. I don’t care who you are, you’re not going to go very far without at least competent resents (and you’re not going to thrive unless you can raise it a step beyond that–or you happen to so outclass your competition otherwise that you can make up for it).

If you’re a burgeoning team–high school, club, college–you MUST emphasize the fundamentals. You might key in on the flashiness of it all, the big hucks, the huge plays, but keep in mind that more often than not 90% of the highest-level games are anything but–just good fundamentals, solid cutting, hard defense, and GOOD RESETS. Model yourself after the “boring” parts–the plays that look easy, because they’ve been practiced and polished to seamlessness–and you’ll more often put yourself in a position where the flashy plays actually make a difference, instead of becoming a footnote in your recap of the blowout loss to stud team x.

More on fundamentals next week.

Related posts:

  1. Marks: Or, the OTHER Most Important Thing in Ultimate
  2. Throwing Thought: Disc Placement on In Cuts
  3. Catching Thought: Receiving Under Pressure

]]> http://www.ultimatethoughts.com/2008/10/resets-or-the-most-important-thing-in-ultimate-frisbee.html/feed 4 I <3 Gwen Ambler. Or, What Kind of Handler/Cutter are You? http://www.ultimatethoughts.com/2008/09/i-3-gwen-ambler-or-what-kind-of-handlercutter-are-you.html http://www.ultimatethoughts.com/2008/09/i-3-gwen-ambler-or-what-kind-of-handlercutter-are-you.html#comments Tue, 09 Sep 2008 08:12:00 +0000 Mackey http://www.ultimatethoughts.com/2008/09/i-3-gwen-ambler-or-what-kind-of-handlercutter-are-you.html More often than not, I find myself completely agreeing with what she says, and there are some great gems in her bit on subbing:
Divide your handlers up into groups of those who generate offense with their throws (big breaks and/or big hucks) and those who generate offense with their legs (effectively get the disc up-the-line and are always open for resets). You’ll want some players from each category on every line.

Divide your downfielders into groups of those who can get open with jukes off of a stopped-disc and those who are great at getting open in flow with timing and filling spaces. Again, you’ll want some players from each category on every line.

The whole issue on subbing is a great opportunity to apply a new lens to yourself as a player: how would somebody in charge of subbing view your abilities? Gwen’s bit here touches on it the most explicitly, I think…what kind of player are you? Do you create offense or augment offense? Are you a big playmaker or a solid contributor? How versatile are you, offensively, defensively? What are some flaws that might lead to you getting less play time (e.g., lack of height/athleticism/conditioning, inconsistent throws in the wind, an inclination towards high-risk shots, etc)?

What kind of player do you want to be? If you’re a coach or a mentor for other players, what kind of player do you see them becoming/what kind of player would make them the most useful? The notion of subbing also harkens to making cuts and forming your team’s identity and strategy in the first place. Lot of good stuff to consider for anybody who fancies themself a team leader/decision maker.

Related posts:

  1. Zone Sets: How to Run a 4-person Cup, Courtesy of Gwen Ambler
  2. Handler? Know Thyself.
  3. Throwing with Touch

]]> http://www.ultimatethoughts.com/2008/09/i-3-gwen-ambler-or-what-kind-of-handlercutter-are-you.html/feed 0