Marking Thought: The Hole-y Mark
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When I was first learning how to play, I’d often ‘cheat’ in marker drill by throwing through my mark, rather than around it as the drill intended. At least, I thought it was cheating, until I realized that it only worked on some people.
If you’ve played much you’re probably familiar with the embarrassment that comes with getting broken through the hole under the arm. What leads to this?
Far as I can tell you have to be aware of a couple of things:
1) where you’re holding your arms. If you’re fond of the pteradactyl mark, arms fully extended out, I think you’ll quickly find that you lack the leathery membrane underneath your arm necessary to fly–or to stop throws.
This is a minor point of contention amongst ultimate players that I’ve seen–some people prefer to keep arms extended and/or up, and show a larger, more imposing mark, while some (myself included) prefer to keep elbows bent and hands low (unless you know the thrower to have a viable/effective high-release backhand, etc). Really, I think either can be effective given the right personnel and the right circumstances (a big guy with his arms extended CAN be pretty darn intimidating), but I feel like more experienced throwers will take holes that you show them (which you do by extending your arms) more often than they’ll be intimidated. Assuming you have the coordination and the spacing to react to throws (more on that in a later post), and assuming your thrower is not a rookie, I think the latter option is the better one. Bend your elbows and hide that hole under your armpit.
2) Your proclivity to reach while moving on the mark is an occasionally-overlooked hole. When a marker is beaten and knows it–the thrower has forced the mark into biting too hard on one side, and is winning the race back to the other–oftentimes the mark while, while shuffling, extend and try to reach as far over to the other side to pressure the throw. This can be effective sometimes, but with this extension you create a moving hole in your mark that can be exploited, turning your attempt to pressure an around into an easy inside break.
3) How close you are to the thrower will determine how easily you can be broken through your mark. If you’re riding up on my leg like a dog in heat, I’ll hardly even need to step to get my arm past your body. In such circumstances, a hole you present doesn’t need to be there for long–just long enough for the thrower to get past you. There are few things more demoralizing on the mark than being broken easily while you’re mentally trying to apply a lot of pressure. Be wary of being too close and too aggressive–#2 can combine with a small margin between you and the thrower to leave your mark very vulnerable.
Feel free to chime in with other relevant factors here.
How you mark will depend on what you’re trying to take away. Some specific responses to what you’ve said (assuming directional, not straight-up):
1) Where you’re holding your arms
Are you going for point-blocks? If so, then I agree you should bend your elbows and flash out for the quick block opportunity. If not, then I think angling your arms slightly down while fully extended is best approach. To do this successfully you’ll need to get your shoulders lower to the ground (do this by bending your knees and getting your butt low, not by leaning forward). Doing this will close the holes _and_ give you a wider, more intimidating mark.
3)How close are you
Are you looking to prevent the break throw? If so, back up. You’re right that you can easily get your arm past a close mark, and by being farther away you’ll have more time to react to pivots, fakes and throws.
However, if you’re looking to put pressure on hucks, then get close. Yes, you might get broken sometimes, but if your defensive strategy is to pressure hucks, while still keeping substantial pressure on break throws, then I think close is the way to go.
Most throwers today will be able to break marks regardless of how you mark. I think that (in general) marking to prevent break-throws is a losing battle. The better approach is to realize that break throws will go off, but by pressuring them, you can increase the chance of a non-perfect throw going off, which gives the downfield defender a chance at a block. Similarly, if you are pressuring hucks, then defenders (who will inevitably be a step or two behind) will have a greater chance at blocking a non-perfect throw. A far mark puts very little pressure on hucks, which makes it very difficult for downfield defense against any team with good throwers.
Ariel,
Intersting thoughts on the arm positioning. I don’t go for point-blocks, but I still prefer elbows bent, not necessarily extended out low.
I think, if you know that your quarry prefers the low throws, you might want to get your hands to a lower default position, but otherwise I’ll take having my hands in a more neutral position to pressure throws at all heights. I don’t think ‘flashing out’ is just a tool for point blocks, but can work just as well as creating those pressured less-than-perfect throws you describe.
I haven’t tried it your way though (or even observed a lot of it), so I can’t really say that with any authority one is better than the other.
I like your comments on spacing. Do you mind if I use them in my next post?
I can see how ‘flashing-out’ can also achieve the effect of pressuring the thrower.
Feel free to use my comments.
When is a “Closer mark” just a euphemism for fouling the thrower? Jackson is right, continually bumping the thrower WILL make most hucks less good and it DOES fluster less experienced throwers.
Some of the older guys on my team teach to mark by putting one’s “balls one their legs”.
This seems to be the a great strategy until we realize that
1)good throwers will be able to get a “free” huck off anyways
2)good throwers will not get flustered and will break you
and more importantly
3) it is blatantly, offensively, disgustingly against the rules and contrary to sportsmanship to premeditate, teach, and execute marks of this nature.
I am a little upset with those old guys and their teaching/marking style so perhaps I am missing the fact that you guys REALLY are talking about the nuanced differences between 2 types of legal marks, but this conversation seems to drift towards whether its ok to not play by the rules. I am unsure as to whether most players even KNOW what the current disc space rule is. Obviously that’s not ok.
I would be interested in your thoughts about playing in an idealized world where the rules were followed vs. the practical reality of playing a game where the rules are not given much respect. (One thing we throwers should practice, that we shouldn’t have too, is calling disc space right after we catch the disc because the mark is always too close to hinder the flow.)
Peace,
Stephen Hubbard
Stephen,
You get at one of the most fundamental dilemmas (in the minds of most) of marking…do you foul in the hopes of pressuring the thrower, or play a bit more “cleanly,” allowing the offense to run a bit more comfortably?
I fall soundly in the latter camp–it’s my belief that a well-designed, smart D can leverage the mark and downfield defense to its advantage without having to bump and hassle the thrower at every turn.
At the same time, I can see why some teams, particularly when faced with an exceptional thrower or throwers, would find it hard to resist the urge to literally throw them off their game.
Some of what I get at in my next post on spacing is related to the risks you talk about (namely, the experienced thrower using the tight mark to his or her advantage), and when I talk about marking close or marking far I do mean within legal bounds. A “far mark” is maybe a step or more off, which, whether you’re comparing to the so-called “nightclub” mark (get in his pants!) or one just very close (but legal), still have strategic differences.
I’ll try and call some attention to the issues you bring up here in my next post (and to address them a little more fully). As for the ideal/reality dichotomy, I know what you’re getting at and that DEFINITELY deserves its own post. I’ll work it in soon.
Hi. May I post this in our team egroups?
Hi Batibut,
Feel free to spread whatever you like. I’d ask that you do so by linking to the site rather than copy + paste, so people can find other info/view comments/etc.