Marking Thought: Be Mobile

Posted November 13th, 2008 by Mackey and filed in Defense, marking
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I’ve touched upon this with my post about staying on your toes, but I didn’t really discuss how this applies to marking then.

The same basic idea applies though: when you’re shifting positions, in all likelihood you’re getting up onto your toes before you get off the ground, am I right?

A reminder: when I say “toes” I mean the balls of your feet, not the toes themselves. Common misconception that running on your ACTUAL toes works–you’ll wind up hurt and you’re hamstringing yourself, pun intended. It’s the balls–your heels might touch down slightly depending on how hard you’re running, but you’re never resting nor really pushing off your heels so long as you’re accelerating (stopping is a different story).

Take a second and visualize yourself on the mark. The thrower takes a big step to the backhand side, pretty clear windup, she puts her head down…

…and then throws a convincing fake before pivoting back over to the forehand side.

My question: how were you attempting to stop the huck? Is it a hand, an arm, your body that’s in the way? Yes yes, minutate will vary depending on situation and team defensive strategy. We’re talking generic you, no filters applied.

Are you standing still? Please tell me you’re not standing still. PLEASE tell me you’re not the person that makes me slap my forehead on the other side of the tourney complex standing there with a half squat, your butt stuck out, and your arms outstretched. Not to call out a whole demographic, but…rookie women’s ultimate players, I’m looking at you. Get on your toes!

Back to the throw. Are you reaching? Are you leaning? If you’re reaching, you’re toast. If I get a mark to reach on a fake like that I have a field day jacking it to the other half of the field.

Are you jumping over? If you’re jumping, you might be toast here too.

WHEN are you jumping over? If you’re waiting until her head is down and the throw is coming, you’re probably too late. You’ll be in time to force a bad throw, for certain, but to touch down quickly enough and with enough presence of mind to respond to the next throwing attempt?

Here’s what I think:

You move with the step. (Feel free to chime in if you feel differently).

Generally speaking, the only way a thrower is going to get the disc directly past you is if they can throw around you (they can throw through you if you’ve got holes in your mark, which is a topic for another post). The number one way to get around you is with use of the pivot (over-the-tops notwithstanding).

Great throwers don’t pivot needlessly, they just pivot when they know they’ve caught you over committed to the side you’re currently on and can freely pass the other way. You have to counter the motion of the thrower by being mobile yourself, and more often than not this means being proactive with your motion, rather than passively waiting for the thrower to exploit your vulnerabilities.

It’s a fine line to walk between being proactive, being overly aggressive (biting on a little pivot pump-fake makes the thrower’s job even easier than throwing off of one pivot), and getting beaten ’cause you’re too slow. Better still, this dynamic will shift depending on your tools and your thrower’s tools (more than anything short of perhaps the jump discs, size and reach disparities can make a big difference here). Your tall/long-armed wonders generally need to shift less than your shorter types, which tends to work out given that most of us littler guys tend to be a little lower to the ground and more responsive as a result.

Timing on when you move on the mark is crucial, but so is the margin by which you move when you choose to do so. How far over do you need to go to pressure the throw?

For big throw(er)s, you want to use your body to discourage the throw(insert caveat about situation and the consequences of over committing vs. allowing the big huck here). For most other situations, unless you have a clear read on your man or have the ape index advantage of an orangutan vs. a T-rex, I think you want to get your body to around the same alignment as your thrower’s hips. From there, your arms can cover at least enough to make an average thrower think twice (but don’t get caught reaching!).

Let’s look at the difference of this margin in crappy MS-paint schematic form:

This is more of what I’d recommend for a “normal” range of mobility. Blue player is obviously the thrower–I’m giving him something approximating normal pivot range for a good thrower. Red player is on the mark, and is just looking to match up with the hips here. Orange block is Red player’s hands, held close to the body. From this position, there’s some potential for the reach–I’m not saying don’t reach, I’m just saying don’t rely on it and definitely don’t over commit to stopping a throw with it–and that reach is within bounds to pressure your normal throws, stop an IO, etc. Your faster hucks, however, are likely to be deterred a bit less by the threat of simply the reach (again, assuming you’re dealing with a good thrower), and the general trajectory this permits tends to be pretty much what O and D would expect–a fairly decent leading throw with some float and some tilt, which generally goes the O’s way if they’re making good decisions.

That said, if you can move this far and move this far proactively, you’ve got a mark that’s good enough quality to play high-level collegiate ultimate, assuming your marking skills aren’t severely lacking elsewhere.


Now the huck-stopper mark. In this particular iteration I’ve got the mark going out to about elbow position, which is arbitrary but not without merit. You can very clearly see that this cuts off a much larger swath of trajectory–especially if this is a sideline marking position (more on that at some much later point), a throw that has to go this wide and arc that much is far more likely to fall the defense’s way, particularly when you consider that these types of throws tend to be forced into their paths due to last-second adjustment (anathema to successful hucks in particular).

The downside? As I alluded to at the beginning of this post, this generally leaves you overextended. You don’t often see a mark in this sort of position, and when you do, it’s only for a second or a half second (generally aided by a “strike!” call or similar help), just enough to discourage the huck. You can tell with a simple look that the distance to cover both ends of that spectrum easily double the more conservative range–this is why it is important to get to a position like that early, and to be ready to quickly move back to respond to the other side. Be mobile. Don’t even attempt to do this if you’re not mobile enough to get back and do your primary job of not getting (heinously) broken. Chances are, you’re not mobile enough to get in the way quickly enough to pressure the huck, either.

This is the sort of marking capability that gets you an assignment against the other team’s no. 1 throwing threat, that allows your mark to be a lynchpin of the defense rather than simply a very large piece of the puzzle. In short, a game-changer.

With good mobility on the mark, you can take away a much larger swath of the field than a stationary mark can, and perhaps even take away a bit more of the field than the other team anticipates–otherwise known as good defense. Using your mobility as a weapon is the pinnacle, but the base is being mobile enough to avoid getting fooled and used by the thrower in front of you.

Start by getting on your toes. The last thing you should do on an ultimate field is take a break on the mark (pun intended! That might be my favorite one yet. I’m filing it away for future coaching use, it’s so good). (It’s too important to take a break and risk letting down your teammates) Through practice, learn how and where and when to be proactive. With diligence, learn how and where and when you can get away with being aggressive(ly proactive). There’s very little that substitutes for experience here–I can’t give a ton of specific advice here because body types and game situations really can make a significant difference. That said, more basics to come.

UPDATE: Gwen adds some more great pointers on marking in the comments.

Related posts:

  1. Marking Thought: Stay Balanced
  2. Marking Thought: Spacing
  3. Marking Thought: The Hole-y Mark
  4. Throwing/Cutting/Defensive Thought: On Your Toes!
  5. Use Pivot Planes For Better Breaking

6 Responses to “Marking Thought: Be Mobile”

  1. Gambler says:

    I know this comment is coming pretty late for this post, but I just wanted to mention that I really like your discussion of trying to match your hips (as the marker) with the thrower’s hips. I actually like to take it one step further and center your hips on the thrower’s right hip (assuming a right-handed thrower). The position of the thrower’s right hip is a clear indicator of where the thrower’s weight is and what throws they are likely to make.

    Let’s assume your in a straight-up situation, which is both applicable if you’re forcing straight up or if you’re forcing towards a sideline but the thrower has squared up to you to try and break your mark (“face your mark” is what all good throwers will tell you do to in order to break the mark). When practicing marking straight up, it’s easy to see how if you keep your hips centered on the right hip bone, you can match whatever throw the thrower’s trying to make. Try it out in practice and I think you’ll find that it’s more useful than centering your hips on both of the thrower’s hips.

  2. Mackey says:

    Better late than never–I’ll use this as motivation to add a comments widget to the sidebar, which I’d been meaning to do for a while anyways.

    Funny, you more or less described my second crappy ascii diagram for a huck-stopping mark (perhaps a bit more conservative, depending on where the “hips” on my blob-like players are located in your mental image). I hadn’t really considered refining my statement re: hips, as though it was something I had learned to do intuitively I hadn’t explored it further (and can’t in my current isolation), but what you say makes a lot of sense.

    The risk, as always, comes with being too aggressive, and the demands of covering a wider swath of space increasing the potential for being faked out, but when the situation calls for aggression you could certainly do a lot worse.

  3. Josh Mullen says:

    Gwen,

    Do you think that marking strategy that you are recommending works for shorter players as well?

    Let’s not beat around the bush, you are several inches taller than most girls and are lanky as well. Match that with your ladder work quickness, and that is hard for most people to get around.

    I am ‘short’ (5’10″) and have a slight negative ape index. When I guard handlers who are 4-5 or so inches taller than me, I find that I have to back off and sit on their backhand sides (since a lot of tall male players get used to just stepping around short marks).

    I will say though, that I think body type does play a part into how a person marks. Just like how a person pivots or throws.

    How far off are you on this style mark?

    I am actually pretty curious about this. From what you are describing, I would think a quick backhand break would be fairly easy to complete.

    I will try this marking style out sometime and tell you how this goes.

    -josh mullen
    p.s. tell nancy sun i said hi! (she’s awesome).

  4. Gambler says:

    Hey Josh–

    You’re definitely right to pick up on the apparent asymmetry that comes of centering yourself on the thrower’s right hip. However, it takes longer for a thrower to pivot from a neutral stance to the backhand side and throw than it does to step out and throw a forehand from a neutral stance. Centering yourself on the thrower’s right hip assumes that the marker can make the necessary lateral slide in the same amount of time as a big step-out and wind-up.

    Obviously, a marker can’t take everything away, but in this type of squared stance, what you are forcing is throws out wide. If the thrower is significantly taller than you, you will have to give up something in terms of the angles you can shut-down (unless you are significantly quicker than the thrower). Whether you decide to give up something on both sides of a straight up stance or just one side is up to you and the team defense you are playing. By sitting on the backhand side, you are potentially opening up the opportunity for a forehand inside-out break, so it’s a bit of a pick-your-poison type scenario.

    As you mentioned, the distance you have from the thrower makes a big difference in how much of an angle you have to give up. The less height advantage the thrower has over you, the closer you can get. Obviously, if you’re marking in this stance to try to take away huck looks, you have to get closer than if you are trying to take away damaging break-mark throws. Luckily, throwers have a much bigger backhand wind-up for hucks than short break-marks, so you’ll also have more time to get over despite being closer when you’re trying to stop hucks this way. If I’m marking this way to take away hucks, I’ll try to be a little more than a discspace away from the thrower. If I’m marking this way to take away breaks, I’ll step off much further–as much as a yard.

    The possibility of quick-release backhands without a full pivot over are a weakness of this type of marking. In the women’s game, those throws aren’t that common, although I know that Sockeye uses a similar marking strategy when they are forcing straight-up in the middle of the field against teams running flat stack offenses. So it probably has its usefulness in the open game too. Maybe more so for stopping hucks than breaks?

    Mackey–

    Sorry I had trouble interpreting your diagram. Hopefully my comments haven’t been too repetitive of what you were already saying. I think that another big advantage of focusing on your hips while marking is that its harder to get faked out with shoulder shimmies, head fakes, or wrist snaps.

  5. Mackey says:

    Gwen,

    I made a shitty diagram anyways (I had considered adding circles or blocks or some equivalent to represent hips but left it to implication instead), and what you talk about is in much broader application than what I originally meant.

    Josh,

    I tend to agree with the notion that a shorter marker should have a bit of extra mobility on a taller thrower. You think you’re short for ultimate, but you’ve got 2, 2.5 inches on me (though I have a +1 ape index so maybe the difference isn’t very large).

    I agree the body type matchup makes a big difference in what you can take away, though I find that this generally plays out for me more often in terms of not being able to pressure, much less stop, a high-release from a Will Neff, than in terms of getting broken around (which I feel is due universally to being pulled over too far to the open side from a pump fake or simply from being so flat that you can’t cut off the angle being thrown to, more so than reach disparities). As has been said, backing off tends to equalize any reach deficits for getting broken–even with the IO, with the extra reaction time.

    In my mind, shorter marks compensate for reach with mobility, while taller marks compensate for mobility (insert obligatory reference to “higher center of gravity”) with reach. I don’t know that one is necessarily superior to the other–certainly it’s easier for the tall to get more mobile than for the short to get more lanky, but anyone is capable of slapping on a “good” mark with diligence.

  6. Owen says:

    Down under, the marking method that Gwen mentioned is catching on (setting your stance relative to the thrower’s right hip). I find it handy.

    If you are aiming to stop the huck, the forehand huck is the biggest risk from the forehand stance. Likewise backhand hucks from the backhand stance. Aligning with the right hip helps this.

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