Defensive Thought: Outside Shoulder!
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Loading ...This is one of the simplest, yet most powerful notions I’ve ever heard in ultimate frisbee.
When you’re playing defense, stay on your opponent’s outside shoulder (“outside” referring to the force side).
In this position, with the defense set up on the outside shoulder of the cutters, there is no such thing as an easy throw. Even on the far right, where it would almost seem to make sense to shift around…
When you leave that alley open the throw becomes uncontested if you lose the footrace (and why, even if you can win the footrace, you wouldn’t choose a superior starting position is a good question–if you’re going to play even, you should still do it on your opponent’s outside). If you stay on the outside shoulder, you’re forcing a throw threaded between the gap between the mark and your positioning without sacrificing the open-side risk.
Even when it seems counter intuitive, stay on the outside shoulder. Always consider the throwing lane. Don’t let yourself be run around and in so doing concede the straight open side cut.
This would be best explained with video, but I don’t have the time or the means on account of my traveling to Japan and not having a team to demonstrate (I haven’t checked the availability of the Buzz Bullets, but I imagine they’re preoccupied getting ready for worlds). Keep an eye out for it in video–lots of shitty defense with a defender getting deked away from the outside shoulder, spectacular defensive plays compensating for said deking (doesn’t justify it unless you get a D on that play consistently!), bad throws forced by good defense keeping its position downfield. There are fundamentals that work or do not work underneath every highlight reel play.
This is the first time I think I’ve disagreed with anything you’ve written. I’ll let you pontificate on throws and grips, but when it comes to D position and footwork I feel pretty confident.
There’s a time for inside shoulder D, and a time for outside shoulder D, and the difference is roughly how likely you are to get broken, and the cost of a break.
Let’s take the scenario from your first diagram, third position on the right. The defender you’ve placed in the diagram is in terrible position, vulnerable to two throws: going away, up the sideline and coming back into the middle for an IO flick/break backhand/scoober/etc.
Turn the defender 180 degrees in this scenario and he’ll in a far stronger position. The obvious throw is the one you’ve labeled in the diagram, straight at him on the in cut. The defender on the inside shoulder has a great view of the throw as well as a straight position ready for a maximum-speed and extension layout.
Now imagine you’ve stopped the force side throw with your threat to lay out. The cutter then stops hard and breaks away deep up the sideline; again the defender is in great position, since he’s already behind him, it’s an easy stuff. Another option for the cutter is the cut to the middle for the IO. This time, you’re in even better position, because you should be able to put your body in between where he is and where he wants to go, which should always be your goal.
There is an open throw in this inside shoulder scenario, and it’s the OI flick from the handler. Your job as an elite cutter defender is to be so in the cutter’s shorts that there’s an extremely small window for the handler to hit.
If done right, an inside shoulder mark in this scenario furthers team D by preventing a costly break and/or huck, makes the throw anywhere from difficult to nearly impossible, and limits the yardage gained.
An inside shoulder mark should be limited to situations where you have help on the break side and/or deep, or tactical considerations (such as being near the end zone) ease the threat or force you to rely on your mark (which, in elite ultimate, should be considered more of a suggestion than a force.)
Ah, some discussion. Good. I like it.
Yeah, that situation on the right took me a bit of thinking to wrap my mind around too, and you’re right, an IO can kill that.
Realistically, I should probably shift the right defender about a step to the left, so he’s more even, but I exaggerate for effect.
I’m positive that what you say holds true for elite ultimate; but what we’ve found on Dartmouth, at a college level (even high level college), is that this simplification universally improves team defense. It’s too easy to be beaten with the straight cut towards the disc (insert a feint beforehand if necessary) when playing that inside position–yes, an elite defender should definitely be able to respond and defend that position, but on a team level we’re talking maybe a couple guys who are capable of elite-level defense consistently, maybe a few more who can do so when they’re fresh, and a lot of guys with heart and experience (or athleticism and a lack of experience). For a college team structure, this idea makes for consistently good defense; I think few teams have the luxury of continuity at the top of their D line to strive for optimization.
To address your though aside from the elite/college split, another thing I’ve found with taking the outside shoulder consistently is that it makes you less prone to biting on every fake your man throws.
Maybe this is just me, but I feel like the position you suggest necessitates a response to any motion the cutter makes, because you’re setting yourself up at a disadvantage on the easiest cut available (open side in)–such being the case, you might be tight for a fake, but when an offense is in motion it’s a lot easier to get caught out of position and unprepared to strike.
By dictacting out and staying on the outside shoulder, I’ve got the benefit of a mark to pressure the break throw (of course, this varies, and I have no counter to your point about the mark’s fragility at an elite level), and the knowledge that a looping, OI forehand huck is hard to place accurately and very D-able if it floats. In any direction my man moves (and to some extent, the disc moves), I can feel confident in my positioning forcing a more difficult throw. That’s what I mean when I’m talking about good team defense.
Yeah, a guy can make an inside-out throw and shred that positioning. The same is true of a lot of circumstances in ultimate. Some of this is definitely the difference between elite and college ultimate (I can’t say I have much, if any, elite ultimate experience to go on, so I don’t presume to talk for such a level), but to some extent you choose to trust your players in this structure to force difficult throws with defensive positioning and good marks (marking to take away that IO), and if a team comes along against us that can consistently exploit that, well, then they’re probably a team capable of making quarterfinals at college Nationals.
I hope I’m not coming off as dismissive here, because I agree with you. But there are definitely some differences in level of play which shift the equation to make that positioning more favorable, and I’m not sure that those factors are universally (or even commonly) true outside of elite ultimate (which you allude to when talking about the likelihood and cost of a break). When I teach defense to college rookies and high school teams, I teach them to stay on the outside shoulder.
Bill,
If you have more thoughts to offer here, maybe to clarify more, I’d love to hear them. I take a lot of pride in my defense and this is one thing I feel pretty confident in, and that’s exactly why I want to hear more that will make me think otherwise.
Being in the Japanese countryside does not leave me with much opportunity to play, so novel mental stimulation is all I have to go on.
> Being in the Japanese countryside does not leave me with much opportunity to play, so novel mental stimulation is all I have to go on.
Yeah, that's rough. Hopefully you get hooked up with the Buzz guys, sounds like they've got a thing or two to say about defense.
I guess one clarification I have is that I want inside shoulder until the cutter commits. So you're right that outside shoulder requires adjustment to all cuts; I'll line up on your inside shoulder in a vert stack and wait for you to make your move.
If you cut break side, I'm already in my favored outside shoulder position and the thrower needs to make a really good break throw around me past my layout radius; possible but difficult. If you fake out I try to stay even with you, hoping for the turn back in.
When I see the turn in, I let you pass me, switching to the outside shoulder D, looking to get low and bid past you if the throw goes up while protecting against the break and the cut back towards the deep end.
in-ter-esting.
well, if i ever wind up playing competitive ultimate again (i did email a contact i found for the buzz bullets, but i’ve yet to get a response–likely they’ve been busy with worlds…and i think they’re in tokyo anyways, which is a good day’s drive away from me, so we’ll see how likely the possibility is…), i’ll give it a try and see how i like it.